McCain Pals Around with Racists and Anti-Semites

pobrecito says on Oct 10, 2008, 12:15:

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

0 funny, 0 helpful.

pobrecito says on Oct 10, 2008, 12:16:

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

0 funny, 0 helpful.

pobrecito says on Oct 10, 2008, 12:22:

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 10, 2008, 12:39:

Don't forget extreme anti-catholic (Hagee), homophobes (Hagee, Robertson, Falwell) who hate America and think that God is punishing our country because its people are tolerant and loving, convicted criminals guilty of robbing tons of money (Keating, and more recently Follieri), a Russian anti-democratic/pro-organized crime (Oleg Deripaska, who the US government will not even allow to enter the States as a result of his reputation), etc. etc. etc. Hey, he also has been to the Arab world and met with tons of Muslims.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mongo says on Oct 10, 2008, 14:22:

I watched all three of those videos and I didn't see anything that shows McCain as a racist or anti-semite. The only thing I saw is that he's an anti-communist. Good for him!

Beware of dog.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

pobrecito says on Oct 10, 2008, 14:25:

Paul Begala, appearing this morning on NBC's "Meet the Press," revealed that back in the 1980s John McCain sat on the board of the extremist "U.S. Council for World Freedom" an ultra-conservative right wing organization which was affiliated with the "World Anti-communist League" which the Anti-Defamation League said "has increasingly become a gathering place, a forum, a point of contact for extremists, racists and anti-semites"

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mongo says on Oct 10, 2008, 14:27:

Sounds like Obama's friends of many years ago....so what's the difference?

Beware of dog.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 10, 2008, 14:31:

Who knows if he is racist himself, he hangs around with racists. Therefore, if you want to criticize Obama for hanging around with William Ayers (a professor, winner of the citizen of the year award in Chicago) for working on a charitable board that was formed by a Republican friend of Ronald Reagan, then it is just as worthy to note all of the questionable people that McCain associates with.

Pinochet was anti-communist as well, do you applaud him?

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mongo says on Oct 10, 2008, 14:58:

The first part of your statement: Fair enough.

The second part: Pinochet has nothing at all to do with McCain. Hitler was anti-communist as well. Bringing either into McCain's anti-communism contributes nothing to your argument.

Beware of dog.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 10, 2008, 15:17:

It simply seems odd that you would overlook the fact that this organization has been called a meeting point for extremists, racists and anti-Semites in favor of applauding McCain for being anti-communist. And Pinochet does belong in the conversation because the US propped up evil bastards throughout Latin America as an alleged means of fighting an alleged Soviet influence. Given that the region has shifted to the left, what lengths will McCain go to in order to shift it back to the right? Is he willing to support, as we have done in the past, right-wing dictators? I don't know...I think it is valid.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 10, 2008, 15:44:

"William Ayers (a professor, winner of the citizen of the year award in Chicago)"

Hmmm, is that all he is known for? Sounds like a prince of a fellow. I wonder if the families of the two cops killed in the Brinks robbery think he's a prince also?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 10, 2008, 16:35:

billyb, damn, I hate to point this out but -----> Ayers was not even in the Weather Underground at the time of the Brinks Robbery. The robbery occurred in 1981. Ayers and his wife, part of a group that split from the Weather Underground known as the Prairie Fire Collective that was in favor of coming out of hiding in order to face the authorities, turned themselves in the year before in 1980.

Everyone knows that he was involved in terrible acts...and he actually did apologize for it. In fact, the New York Times article that appeared on September 11, 2001 where he made the alleged comments about not setting off enough bombs, was immediately followed by a letter to the editor (9/15/2001) where he claimed that he was totally misquoted and that his words were completely manipulated. And he apologized not only to the reporter during the original interview (allegedly) but again in the letter to the editor. Now, why is this not in the Newspapers and in rotation at Fox?

The negatives about Ayers have been in the News since Hillary brought it up, how long ago? And this is pretty much the only story about Ayers that his been in constant rotation for how long? And investigations (those other than the one done by Fox and Hannity with a anti-Semite leading the charge) have explained that there was no meaningful relationship between the two men.

You want to fault me for ignoring what everyone has heard a million times...things that, in many cases, are exaggerations wrapped around a kernel of truth...What is wrong with talking about what this man has been doing...oh, I don't know...for the past 20 years of his life? What is wrong with mentioning facts, that give a more balanced picture? Bombs and terrorism...everyone has heard it.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 10, 2008, 16:45:

I'd be interested inn hearing what you think he has done in, oh let's say, the last 20 years that exonarates him from committing terrorist acts against his own country and people.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:06:

The government exonerated him, the college where he is a professor exonerated him, Reagan's buddy - Walter Annenberg - exonerated him by letting him serve on the board of his charity, the Republicans that served with him on that board exonerated him.

What happened to the FBI agents involved in the murder of Fred Hampton? Are there any politicians that have had associations with them? Did they express remorse? What about the National Guard that killed the students at Kent State? Any politicians have contact with them? And what about all of the other individuals involved in the government that were involved in the deaths of US citizens? What exonerates them? A badge? A uniform? Patriotism?

It should be noted that the Weather Underground, in almost every case, went to great lengths to warn everyone that a bomb was going to be set off. True, people died and were injured. And that is terrible. But to act like this group was at war with the "people" of the country is ridiculous. I do not support their platform nor do I support their methods...but there were plenty of people that were behaving badly and that includes individuals in the US government. And that government also committed acts of extreme violence against its own people.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

sloopskipper says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:17:

Has anyone done anything FORTY years ago (especially as a young student in the Viet Nam era of the SIXTIES) that he now might regret (or wouldn't repeat)?

It seems that this guy has repented and is now on a different path.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:22:

"What happened to the FBI agents involved in the murder of Fred Hampton?"

I don't know, did any of them get named "man of the year"? What do they have to do with Ayers?

"What about the National Guard that killed the students at Kent State?"

They should probably be in prison, just like Bill Ayers, but who is defending them on here? Again, what do they have to do with Billy Boy? Are you going to name every criminal you can think of as your excuse for Bill's crimes?

"but there were plenty of people that were behaving badly and that includes individuals in the US government."

I don't understand why you wrote this comment. Is it to imply that it's Ok to bomb your country's institutions because "other" people were behaving "badly" also?

"And what about all of the other individuals involved in the government that were involved in the deaths of US citizens? What exonerates them? A badge? A uniform? Patriotism?"

Who's making excuses for them? If they committed a crime let them pay the price. Or do you view crime through an idealogical prism?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

sloopskipper says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:27:

They served together on a charity board?

Take 'em both out and let the NRA shoot 'em!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:31:

Well maybe just wing 'em a bit.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 10, 2008, 18:37:

The government could have thrown him in jail, billyb, they did not. Nobody has been freaking out about this man until they found a meaningless link between him and Obama. Now you have idiots calling for Obama's head and people, like yourself, that want to throw Ayers in jail.

What does Ayers have to do with Fred Hampton? Are you serious? The Weather Underground was partially a reaction to the violence that the government was carrying out against African American leaders. Fred Hampton was one of the high profile examples of this phenomena because it was proven that the FBI was highly involved in his assassination. But many people had been aware of the governments role in instigating violence against African Americans...not to mention the role of local police against blacks. The Weather Underground did not sprout up out of thin air...they were a reaction to a government that was beating down students and African Americans, while also telling the youth that they may be forced to go fight and die in a war that many people did not believe in. It was an ugly/complex time.

I brought up cases with the officials because, a) you condoned the actions of McCain in the military and b) people generally have a tendency to accept crimes committed by people in uniforms or suits be they against their own population or foreigners. I am trying to figure out who is allowed to kill and who is not, by your definition. Our bombs in Vietnam killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people...Now, did the survivors feel any better knowing that it was a foreign government and not local radicals that killed their friends and family? Do all of the official excuses for our presence there help lick their wounds? Does the fact that our government says that it was justified make it justified? I know the difference between a soldier and a radical, but I have a difficult time understanding the difference between an innocent life in Vietnam and an innocent life in the United States. Not to mention, things get blurry sometimes...Our government has been known to applaud rebel groups that carryout terror campaigns on their own population because US officials have decided the given government was evil or corrupt or communist or whatever. So...again...things get blurry.

Who defines what is and what is not a crime? It is convenient isn't it?

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

briarblue says on Oct 10, 2008, 19:57:

May I offer you a mirror?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 10, 2008, 22:52:

You may offer whatever you like.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 11, 2008, 00:03:

Lc, I think we agree on more than we think. You have never seen me defend the government, the FBI, the Justice Deparment Etc....when they abuse power. If you have noticed in many of my posts, the one thing I hate above all else (even the FARC) is corrupt politicians and, even more so, corrupt functionaries. They are at the root of most of the social evils in the developing world, and to a lesser extent in the developed world (as we have seen in the current financial crisis), but with all its faults, I believe the US is the greatest country that has ever existed. I mean think about it, how did England (which I love), France, Spain etc.... behave when they were the pre-eminent powers of their time? They raped, pillaged, looted, enslaved, commited genocide (and those were the most "benign" powers, we won't even get into how Germany, Japan and Russia, Belguim under King Loepold, treated their vanquished enemies). The US has scerwed up many times (specially lately), but it has generally been generous in victory to its enemies, so much more so than any country in history. If you don't buy that, I would like to hear which country has behaved more civily (sp) in victory. having said that, with all the freedoms the US affords, how can we condone, or even make excuses for people that commit terrorist acts against its institutions and the people that are hired to protect them.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 11, 2008, 10:32:

You are right, and I know that we agree on more than we let on. Again, I do not condone killing people; however, I think the Weather Underground, in most cases, did try to avoid harming anyone. Their primary goal was to explode bombs and destroy buildings to draw attention. To me, that seems pretty benign despite the fact that destruction of property is in itself a crime. They made some mistakes, they were careless, and I believe that the primary players have all expressed regret for the deaths of individuals. As I said, I do not agree with what they were fighting for; however, I do in many ways agree with what they were fighting against.

US civilians have the right to keep arms, form militias, and overthrow an unjust government. Well, I think the treatment of African Americans by the government was unjust. I think the Vietnam War, in many ways, was unjust. I think the treatment of social movements by the government was unjust. I think the overthrow of a democratically elected government in a foreign country with the aide of our government is unjust. I think spying on our own civilians is unjust. I think forcing people to fight in a war they do not believe in is unjust. And I believe people finally found out just how corrupt our government was with Watergate...Actually, Watergate was trivial...everything else Nixon was involved in was much worse. Now, I am not saying that there needed to be an all out war on the government. But let's face it, the government declared war and called civilians enemies before the Weather Underground even surfaced. Therefore, I do have some understanding of why some people may have felt a need to join such groups. As i said, watching your friends get severely beaten, assassinated and watching homes, churches, political offices get blown up may make you a little defensive and hostile yourself. Hey, even back then there were cops and individuals in the national guard who were upstanding and came to the defense of blacks; however, there were enough that did not and they made it a living hell for some people.

The US has been pretty generous to certain enemies and it has been known to give some aide to foreign countries. On the other hand, it has also been known to support undemocratic/violent regimes. What other countries have been powerful enough to do such things? Do you want me to compare the US to the former Soviet Union? Of course, the US is better. But I am not sure the people in Argentina, Guatemala, Chile, Bolivia, Nicaragua, etc. really care. Every negative disgusting thing we said about the Russians is true of ourselves by way of our relationships with Latin America. It seems perverse that so many people want to compare our countries actions to those of our enemies instead of to our own principles and ideals.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ujay says on Oct 11, 2008, 12:01:

Watergate was trivial
today it would not have bought nixon down,bush is doing far more now.

but nixon Was into every thing ,I read that he used to sit nude in the oval office ,I wonder if that's true,but tricky dicky was a devious guy.

http://www.jukelightning.com

0 funny, 0 helpful.

pobrecito says on Oct 11, 2008, 15:30:

billyb you live in another world than the true world ...LOL

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 11, 2008, 18:01:

Pobre, you need to sign up 3 more times so you can give me 20 funnies. I have never seen a bigger waste of oxigen.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 11, 2008, 18:29:

p.s. billyb...I was not implying that you are guilty of my last statement.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 11, 2008, 19:33:

Got it.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on Oct 12, 2008, 01:02:

Yes but one big difference between Nixon and Bush is that Nixon, while he could be devious, was a Sharp Guy who could think on his feet and earned everything he had in life on his own merit the hard way. Not the same with GW Bush who was born into privelege with a silver spoon in his pie hole,,,

On Sept 17, 2008: Senator John McCain said, as he had many times before, that he believed the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."Hours later he backpedaled, explaining that he had meant that American workers were Strong.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Oct 12, 2008, 07:46:

Reminds me of what Ann Richards once said about George "41", "he was born on third base and thought he had hit a triple".

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lcacique says on Oct 12, 2008, 10:15:

Nixon was devious, but I certainly agree that there was a light on upstairs.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

0 funny, 0 helpful.