Penthouse in Medellin for sale!! HUGE!!

lpdiver says on Oct 10, 2008, 09:12:

post a link to some pics

ts

"cook some rice!"

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rocinante says on Oct 10, 2008, 09:15:

Let me guess. It's in Poblado?

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 10, 2008, 09:24:

Alot of "Flipping" going around in MDE as well to, huh? lol

I love Laura Acuna & Jessica Cediel! lol

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chingon says on Oct 10, 2008, 10:43:

I Will but it!!!

Seriously no pics, no location, nothing. Funny the other day I had some jaborni's from Miami telling me how they were down her trying to sell real estate. How I should be buying now and this is really going to take off. Each of them with a prepago, telling me how they just met these girls and they weren't hookers...The entertainment is Medellin is great

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Cheers Terry says on Oct 10, 2008, 14:46:

I'm meeting a lot guys lately bailing on their Medellin penthouses... it seems every single building in Poblado has at least one For Sale sign on it...

Cheers,
Terry

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judgeschmails says on Oct 10, 2008, 14:52:

It is a good price per meter. I'll bet is is in Belen or something.
But seriously, now is not a good time to sell anything. But it is a great time to buy just about anything.
And I have a Penthouse in Poblado....and it is definately not for sale. I love it too too much.

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Cheers Terry says on Oct 10, 2008, 16:12:

"... But it is a great time to buy just about anything..."

=============================================

Really? I think prices are going to drop steadily. I see penthouses that have been for sale for months and months and months now with no one biting. It's Colombia... they're ridiculously overpriced compared to other markets around the world.

Just my opinion. We'll see if I was right a year or two from now.

Cheers,
Terry

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Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 10, 2008, 16:32:

Its not really all of Colombia. Its just really outrageous in Medellin. Due to the Gringo influx. You can go other places and still get fantastic deals..

I love Laura Acuna & Jessica Cediel! lol

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Tejeringo says on Oct 10, 2008, 16:39:

Now that Gringos are broke ! What's going to happen with Medellin ? what about Prepagos?

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rocinante says on Oct 10, 2008, 16:48:

Names? Rodney.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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billyb says on Oct 10, 2008, 16:50:

" they're ridiculously overpriced compared to other markets around the world"

You really can't (or better said, shouldn't) compare properties in different countries, you can only compare them to other properties in the same market. I mean Medellin is a bargain compared to San Francisco, Honolulu, Manhattan.............., but you can't compare those markets. Like politics, all real estate is local.

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rhydewithdis says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:07:

agreed. prices will drop over the next year about 20-40%. Trillions upon trillions of dollars have been erased throughout the world. Coupled the coming drop in RE values with the depreciation of fhe COP against most major currencies -- you do the math.

They said I couldn't play football I was too small / They say I couldn't play basketball I wasn't tall / They say I couldn't play baseball at all / And now everyday of my life I ball.

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billyb says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:36:

Not saying they are not overpriced, because I think the market is getting toppy, just saying that you can't compare the prices of properties in different markets, not to mention different countries.

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Saltador says on Oct 10, 2008, 17:48:

I'll be surprised if we see a drop in prices anywhere near 20-40%. 10% may be more realistic as a worse case scenario. Trillions of dollars in the stock market has been erased, but it won't affect the wealthy colombians who are buying these apartments to that great of an extent. It may affect some gringos, but remember these are cash deals, you wouldn't manage your money that way (leaving your capital in the stock market) if you were looking to buy an apartment. The dollar has risen dramatically against the COP, so that makes it easier for gringos to buy, not harder. And it affects colombians not one bit, they are not exchanging pesos at all. And remember, most of these apartments are being bought by colombians, not gringos, as this board would have you believe. As your idols once said, "Don't believe the hype".

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gringoloid says on Oct 10, 2008, 18:02:

salt.........so you are another one that feels the global financial collapse is not going to have an effect on colombia?

my girlfriends bogota apartment has been rising 30% a year........she has actually been paid $1800 a month to live there in real estate appreciation. that's too much, too fast.

a 40% drop in the higher end, ordinary apts would not be unusual at all.

i said before that i was shown a $400K apartment in Bogota that was quite ordinary........i could find a better deal in Newport Beach, CA.

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Saltador says on Oct 10, 2008, 18:10:

gringoloid,
I just don't think we'll see a 40% drop in real estate values. Certainly colombia will be affected, the entire world will be affected to varying degrees.

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gringoloid says on Oct 10, 2008, 18:25:

remember though salt..........i'm not saying 40% across the board and not even 40% total on the high end stuff. some neighborhoods are just plain old way overpriced.

colombia is different from the u.s. because they pay cash for their homes here...well, a lot of them anyway. colombia doesn't have a broke middle class either like the usa, so there is not going to be a housing collapse like the u.s.

i said a long time ago that i'm waiting until the second half of 2009 to buy a home.......if there is not a 25% drop in the nice homes here in that time.........i will be very disappointed.

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rhydewithdis says on Oct 10, 2008, 18:28:

Saltador, the upper class that is buying these properties are just as affected, because much like the upper class throughout the world, they have all been sipping on the same kool-aide that we working class in the US have. Everyone was led to believe that the US market was a safe haven investment and nearly everyone is invested in funds with much exposure to the very same markets and industries that have been hit in this economic crisis.

Don't believe for a minute that those wealth Colombianos are not invested in some of the same mutual funds that you are I are invested in.

Citibank, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanely etc. ALL have private client operations down here to serve the needs of the upper classes. They were ALL pushing the same investment vehicles that have lost 20% in the last week alone.

They said I couldn't play football I was too small / They say I couldn't play basketball I wasn't tall / They say I couldn't play baseball at all / And now everyday of my life I ball.

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Cheers Terry says on Oct 10, 2008, 22:30:

You really can't (or better said, shouldn't) compare properties in different countries, you can only compare them to other properties in the same market. I mean Medellin is a bargain compared to San Francisco, Honolulu, Manhattan.............., but you can't compare those markets. Like politics, all real estate is local.

===============================

Wrong, Billy. You absolutely CAN compare markets all over the world. You're just comparing the wrong places. Mentioning Medellin in the same sentence with San Fransisco, Honolulu and Manhattan is insane...

Cheers,
Terry

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ronaldo says on Oct 11, 2008, 05:36:

jack4u:

Are you talking two apartments per floor at 450 square meters each apartment or each floor at 450 square meters per floor and 225 square meters per apartment?

Ronaldo

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corporalgator says on Oct 11, 2008, 07:25:

I agree that you can't compare this market to others, but you can look at it in terms of the relative wealth of Colombia, and by that measure, there are abnormally high prices. Also agree that the upper class was probably making the same phony money that those around the world were by investing in these funds that had subprime mortgage securities as the main drive of their returns. Unless they were smart enough to pull out before it went bad, they probably lost a lot as well.

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ronaldo says on Oct 11, 2008, 10:05:

Can You Compare Markets?

YES

There are three factors to comparison of markets.

One is the Market Approach - How much is a willing buyer willing to pay for a property to a willing seller.

The Second is the Cost Approach - the cost of replacement - "How much would it cost to replace another unit just like it".

The Third is the Emotional Factor - What are your personal desires.

The Market Approach and the Cost Approach should arrive at the same $amount.

If not then the Market is either "Overpriced" or "Underpriced" depending which Approach is higher or lower.

The Third and variable factor is individual desireability and price. For example if it were possible to have 5 identical properties in 5 different cities A< B< C< D< E all at the same price, then what city would be your individual choice be? This is an emotional factor.

Then, if you had the same identical properties again in the same 5 cities A>B>C>D>E at different prices, then one's choice is based on the emotional factor and price. For example, one might say, "I would not pay double the price just to live in city B over city E"; or one might say "I would willing pay double to live in city A over city D".

If you are house hunting in different cities then we compare different properties in different cities all the time based on these factors.

So the answer is "YES" you can compare real estate in different cities and every individual does it every time they make these choices based on these factors.

Every purchase you make is based on some criteria of comparison, every day, always.

Ronaldo

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Gringo Spy says on Oct 11, 2008, 11:52:

There sure are a lot of people talking out of their bung hole when it comes to their knowledge of the real estate market in Medellin. You guys crack me up beyond belief! Thanks for the belly laughs.

For your information one main reason penthouses are slow to sell is because they are the most expensive apartment in the building. When you are selling the most expensive house on the block do you really think it will be the first to sell? Please people start thinking before speaking out here! If you purchased the least expensive house on the block (the smallest apartment in the building) you would most likely sell it faster than it's more expensive counterpart. This is real estate 101!

The prices are NOT going to be dropping 20%-40% any time soon. Step up to the plate and buy all you can! You guys who are sitting on the sidelines waiting for some bubble to burst are missing out on some great opportunities. While the real estate market in the US is spiraling downwards the market in Colombia is as strong as ever.

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bickerss says on Oct 11, 2008, 17:07:

Wait for the market to drop - all those apartments in construction, have to be bought by someone and credit is drying up!!

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billyb says on Oct 11, 2008, 19:23:

"Wrong, Billy. You absolutely CAN compare markets all over the world"

You can, and you can also lose your ass buying or selling based on those comparisons instead of using local market imperatives, conditions and comparisons as you guide instead. What market would you compare to Medellin? And what are the criteria that makes you think they are comparable, and what are the quantitives that make you believe that Medellin is overvalued viz-a-viz that market? Too many variables there to make a useful comparison. That is why they say real estate is local.

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Cheers Terry says on Oct 11, 2008, 19:26:

Of course you use local market imperatives, conditions and comparisons, but to say that you have to ignore international markets is nuts. The world is not a fishbowl anymore.

Cheers,
Terry

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Gringo Spy says on Oct 12, 2008, 05:15:

bickerss: In the time you have been looking for an apartment over the past year I have invested several hundred thousand dollars in Medellin real estate. To date I have seen my investments increase in value in excess of 20%. This number is based upon what I invested and what the unsold units are now SELLING for in the same building.

You are losing out and the longer you put off the decision to buy the more you will continue to lose. Time to bite the bullet and make that leap, especially with the COP so weak against the dollar (Assuming you will be purchasing with USD).

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billyb says on Oct 12, 2008, 07:58:

"Of course you use local market imperatives, conditions and comparisons, but to say that you have to ignore international markets is nuts. The world is not a fishbowl anymore"


Terry, I understand that, but my point is that there are too many variables to extrapolate that one market is overvalued because another specific market is overvalued, so while two markets may share some of the characteristics that affect the price, no two markets share all the same characteristics, but it does work as tool to gauge general trends.

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rhydewithdis says on Oct 12, 2008, 08:27:

The global credit crisis will have a huge residual affect on Colombia. The only South American economy that is anywhere close to decoupling itself directly from the economy of EEUU is Brasil. Irregardless, you can clearly see here that in the last six months as the US Dow has dropped, Brasil has been affected even more so:


What this means for Colombia is not only will there be less FDI from all countries, but you will have a decrease in exports for newer industries in Colombia that have taken off in the past few years, most of which have been funded through easy to access credit lending facilities.

This in turn will result in a loss of relatively high-paying local jobs. You will also have quite a few foreigners that were planning on retiring to Colombia decide to hold off--even if that is 500-1000 persons over the course of a year, that is a comparable # of real estate that will be affected (both rentals and purchases).

They said I couldn't play football I was too small / They say I couldn't play basketball I wasn't tall / They say I couldn't play baseball at all / And now everyday of my life I ball.

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billyb says on Oct 12, 2008, 16:58:

yup

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Colombian Idea says on Oct 12, 2008, 17:39:

Would you consider a 1 year lease? PM me.

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Ctg Bound says on Oct 13, 2008, 10:39:

Saltador,

I also can't see prices dropping away much if anything in Medellin, stagnating in some areas which have gone up a lot over the last 4-5 years, where you might be able to pick up a deal, but nothing overall.

We shall see.

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gringoloid says on Oct 14, 2008, 19:05:

gringo spy.......

if i had bought a home in may when i moved to medellin, i would have paid over 20% more than i would today as a result of the exchange rate, usd to cop.

you were writing the same kinds of things back then, like......jump in, jump in.....to bickerss.

look at the money i saved so far by NOT taking your advice.

colombia may be further affected in the next year.

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Gringo Spy says on Oct 14, 2008, 19:41:

gloid: If his intent was to jump into the market and then jump out I certainly wouldn't have advised him to buy. I understood him to want it for a long term purchase but if I'm wrong on that then I stand corrected.

I'm not a currency speculator, I'm a real estate investor and businessman, so with regards to timing the market as far as when to convert USD to COP's that's a whole different deal.

BTW if I remember correctly it was over a year ago when I first read a post by bickerss where he wanted to purchase a place in Medellin and back then I believe the COP was around 2200.

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Gringo Spy says on Oct 14, 2008, 19:49:

Actually the date he, bickerss, wrote the post about wanting to buy in Medellin was almost exactly one year ago, October 15, 2007 to be exact and I believe the COP was hovering just above 2000 back then. So had he purchased at that time he would have realized some nice appreciation on his investment even considering the COP was a couple of hundred less than it is today.

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/apartment-in-medellin1/

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bickerss says on Oct 14, 2008, 23:47:

Not sure about too much capital price appreciation in that period!! And, I generally buy long term, however ,I do not think that buying at (what I think are) very high market prices is a smart thing to do. I generally take time with my investments, and am willing to wait (buy low / sell high rather than buy at the top of the market).

Maybe (Big maybe IMO) I am wrong and the market will continue to grow and never ever retreat - the housing miracle; but I don't think so. If so, then yes I will have missed out!!

I'm back in Medellin now, and walking around Poblado the last few days, I see the same for sale signs, in the same multitude of windows, that I saw 3 months ago and longer (with many more having appeared). Sure the peso depreciation is making the market more attractive at this time, however as already stated, I think the housing prices have a way to fall in Poblado.

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Gringo Spy says on Oct 15, 2008, 05:43:

bickerss: Not knowing you budget and not knowing your requirements for an apartment I can only speculate you are not looking for a new project. I say this because had you been looking at new units your theory of waiting for the "bubble" to burst should be, IMHO, thrown out the window. I say this because as of this week there have been a significant number of sales in this area since last October. For example, every single one of the new projects I looked at over a year ago have continued to sell and they, the developers, are continuing to raise their prices virtually every month. One building I looked at yesterday and over a year ago is a perfect example. This building is still under construction, they sell anywhere from three to six units per month, the developer has raised the prices of the smaller units from $398 million COP (Late last summers prices) to just over $500 million COP (as of yesterday). What I understand is the developer raises the prices after three units are sold and continues this schedule as long as units are selling at the pace they have projected.

So with that being the case, had you purchased in that particular building last October you would have realized a paper profit of over $100 million COP. Not a bad bit of appreciation wouldn't you say?

Again, not knowing your situation or requirements I can only present the example above based upon my knowledge and direct experience in the Medellin real estate market.

All the best to you on your prolonged search but know, IMHO, you are losing out because of your reluctance to step up to the plate and buy. I've known many people like you and frankly those are the ones who rarely take the leap due to their lack of knowledge and expertise in the market or their fears of taking the leap. These fears are typically based upon inexperience or lack of accurate knowledge in the market and or they have little money to invest and fear they will lose their life savings. Whatever your case may be again, I wish you all the best!

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Ctg Bound says on Oct 15, 2008, 05:57:

bickerss,

Ignoring the chance of a bargain appearing, which could appear any time, but more appear when there are problems around, from what I have seen the Medellin market shouldn't be likened to your home Countries market.

Few people buy with mortgages being the main reason I suspect for this.

People just won't lower their prices, other than the inflated rate they potentially put the property on the market and are expecting a lower price after negotians.

Certain areas have to many new apts available which should dampen down property value growth, like El Pobaldo, but from what I have seen I don't expect any overall drop in prices.

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gringoloid says on Oct 15, 2008, 07:04:

' One building I looked at yesterday and over a year ago is a perfect example. This building is still under construction, they sell anywhere from three to six units per month, the developer has raised the prices of the smaller units from $398 million COP (Late last summers prices) to just over $500 million COP (as of yesterday). What I understand is the developer raises the prices after three units are sold and continues this schedule as long as units are selling at the pace they have projected.'
.

GS, could you please give me the address of this building?

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bickerss says on Oct 15, 2008, 07:42:

I was looking at both new and old in Medellin. I commenced to concentrate on older buildings due to a couple of factors. One was the payments requirements for Colombia , which required monthly installments over the construction period; compared to say Panama – where I have invested since 2005 – which required 10%, then 10% each year until the final payment on completion which suited me better.

The other factor was that in Panama they have low property taxes and the investment incentives for new builds which includes ie 20 years free of property tax (they are looking at this for Colombia however ,as of last Fri, a check with the Brit Trade section indicated it was still in the works and some time away).

Another factor is the disparity of prices between new and old which is widening and that in Many of the new ones the construction seemed ‘less than great’ – which of course will vary between company’s.

The progression of costs in increments over the construction is normal for off the plan constructions as those who invest early take the most risk and the construction company need the initial commitments to secure funding from the bank. Now before people tell me – I already know Panama city is one big bubble waiting to deflate – Luckily (for my situtation) I bought before it inflated and in prime places where I want to keep the properties for good.

I guess after that ramble – the conclusion is I will continue to look at the already constructed apartments.

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Gringo Spy says on Oct 15, 2008, 14:03:

gloid: The name of the construction company is PSI, they currently have multiple projects under construction in Medellin. A list of their some of their past and present projects that I am aware of are as follows:

Villa Loma
Azalea del Parque
La Duquesa
Balcones de Tierra Linda
Calle Quinta
Puente Madero
Entrepuentes
Puente Pierdra
Murano

http://www.psi.com.co/

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gringoloid says on Oct 15, 2008, 18:03:

i see two that might fit the bill...........entrepuentes and puente pierdra........but they're no where near the price you mentioned.

it says the units start at 360.000.000 at puente pierdra. i'm assuming this is the one you are talking about but correct me if i'm wrong.

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Gringo Spy says on Oct 16, 2008, 06:13:

gloid: You need to go the their sales office on Calle Quinta and speak with either Diana, Natalia or Marcela. You can also go to their web site I provided in my comment above.

I am on their site now and I see prices from $419,850 up to $499,107 at thier Entrepuentes project for units ranging in size from 159M2, 162M2, 177M2 and 189M2. In the Puente Piedra project I see prices from $360,130 to $814,343 with the units ranging in size from 131M2, 185M2 and 292M2. I'm sure the sales people will have slightly different numbers based upon what floor the units are located etc. so best to go direct to get the latest info.

BTW what you won't see on their web site is that the Entrepuentes project has two penthouses available and they are just over 300M2 in size and they are asking around $800,000 for them (There were four but two have been sold).

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