Medellin Mansion Continued

Ctg Bound says on Aug 27, 2008, 05:43:

Did anyone see the programme?

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tejasmarcos says on Aug 27, 2008, 06:20:

did not see it, ctg. although i have heard from several sources now that mde mongers are making their presence known to the local elites. it has started people talking and no doubt just a matter of time before this "ugly side" of mde is addressed.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tomtom33 says on Aug 27, 2008, 06:26:

Several of the elites own and operate casas throughout Medellín. My guess is that they have been aware of this ugly side long before any Gringos came to town.

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paulr says on Aug 27, 2008, 06:26:

The programme wasn´t just about the mansion, it was about what fogeigners do here and it was edited very badly to make ALL tourists look like complete drug and sex starved goons, it was very very bad.

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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tejasmarcos says on Aug 27, 2008, 07:18:

the locals do not parade their prostitutes around like a circus - unlike foreigners.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tomtom33 says on Aug 27, 2008, 07:47:

"the locals do not parade their prostitutes around like a circus - unlike foreigners."

I have only lived in Colombia for a little over 5 years. Guess I am not very observant. Of course I have never been to the MM, and I spend very little time in Poblado.

During my 4 years in Laguito, I saw many more Colombianos parading their catches around than I did foreigners.

I do realize that we are guests in this country and that we should behave as such. Some do not.

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PALEOLITICO says on Aug 27, 2008, 08:23:

Places like the one you have just described here are an embarrassment for our city and a very great sadness to our women-girls.

Hopefully All foreigners who come to our country and in particular Medellin, come with constructive ideas, projects to build our city and its people, and not taking our beautiful country as a tourist destination for prostitution and degradation of our women - girls.

Foreigners like these are undesirable! and hopefully the DAS pursue them until the fatigue and remove as cockroaches from here.

Go to install their garbage to their countries of origin.

Enseñame a enseñar.

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tejasmarcos says on Aug 27, 2008, 08:24:

tomtom - medellin is not cartagena as you well know. the people who live in the upper stratas here are very conservative. they let things slide that are kept hush hush - like prostitution. however, they begin to take notice when 5-6 gringos are walking around with 8-10 scantilly dressed hookers in parque lleras. this was probably the trigger for the media interest and subsequent pressure on politicians here to do something about "the perceived problem".

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tomtom33 says on Aug 27, 2008, 08:28:

I completely agree.

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tejasmarcos says on Aug 27, 2008, 08:34:

those that continue to operate in a conservative fashion will not be affected. however, be on the lookout for changes in the future regarding this subject. the gringo jackasses have a way of ruining a "good thing" due to a lack of respect.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tomtom33 says on Aug 27, 2008, 08:36:

Paleo, should DAS pursue Colombian customers of prostitutes as well?

I just don't like the emphasis on foreigners. We simply aren't numerous enough to affect much of anything in Colombia. If you have a problem with prostitution, by all means go after it. But don't point at extranjeros as the source of your problem.

I know many sex tourists. They have jobs and families at home and have no interest in making spectacles of themselves nor do they wish to disrespect anything Colombian. I agree that there are some assholes. Go after them. Don't paint with a broad brush.

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tejasmarcos says on Aug 27, 2008, 08:47:

nice comments, paleopolitico.

;)

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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toneloc24 says on Aug 27, 2008, 09:19:

I think that old Japanese maxim "the nail that sticks out, gets hammered..." applies here.

I don't think that this new emphasis is a morality play or anything. Some folks just don't know how to act in public, nor with any discretion. Medellin has always been a pretty conservative city, And since none of the gringo locals there bothered to try to tone down these clowns, it came to this. These gringo-centric places and their clientele brought attention to something that is otherwise unspoken or ignored. And in the sacred Poblado of all places. Ha!!!

As someone already stated, those establishments that fly below the radar probably won't be subjected to this. People should observe and respect certain local customs, including discretion.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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toneloc24 says on Aug 27, 2008, 09:24:

TomTom33 - "Paleo, should DAS pursue Colombian customers of prostitutes as well?"

I think that DAS is only going after the purveyors of prostitution, not the customers.

Now the local media???? It makes for a sensationalistic story. Wanted to be the center of attention? They'll get it now.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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pavo says on Aug 27, 2008, 09:29:

Not easy to be a Gringo pimp in Colombia I guess. Who would have thought? What idiots!

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PALEOLITICO says on Aug 27, 2008, 09:42:

tomtom: "should DAS pursue Colombian customers of prostitutes as well?"

A/: DAS, the army, police, civil defence, citizens ... all! fighting since our professions and our work to eradicate the problem from its roots. (but this would be subject to another post endless).

First of all you should read well the part where I say "this kind of foreigners."
Of course are a minority of foreigners who settle in our country for these purposes and it is also clear that they are not the source of the problem. BUT THEY ARE CONTRIBUTE TO THE PROBLEM!.

Of course the DAS and all competent authorities should prosecute such people are foreigners or Colombians. Imagine you where all foreigners (or Colombians) seeking to do this kind of business in our country do not find any obstacle in their path and do not have any problem with your business and filling their pockets with money originates in the need of others and pain of others.

Happen these people communicate others about the lucrative and easy it is to install this type of business in Colombia. What happen then? That thousands will want to come to Colombia to do the same: to make money without problem. (with pretext that it is the oldest profession in the world, nothing new).

And, in a country like Colombia where the vast majority people live in poverty, this would be chaos, because their women, men and children found in this business without obstacles, THE WORST WAY to solve their desperate problems.

It is now, when are taking the first outbreaks of this business (by foreigners), we must exterminate them as pests before they reproduce.

And if these subjects disguise their actions under the guise are giving work to many girls who need it, then why not seek to create such company in the textile sector that is too lucrative or build schools or open restaurants. No, they seek the path infecting more.

I know personally several foreigners who have settled in our country for purposes really admirable. Foreigners who love and admire this land and its people and not see it as a vulgaris merchandise to make dirty money, but as a place full of wonderful opportunities and a lot to learn.

TO ALL THEM ALWAYS WELCOME AND THANKS!! (Also for you M.)

Enseñame a enseñar.

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pavo says on Aug 27, 2008, 09:47:

I agree. But I pose a quesiton. Isn't this legal in Colombia?

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Waterdawg says on Aug 27, 2008, 09:50:

Tomtom : I am over in Bogota ; I have been down South for five years also . There are a hell of a lot more Colombians prancing around with Trophy's on their arms than " foreigners " any given night of the week.. What you are seeing is the norm for Latin America " Fix the Blame , not the Problem " I live with it every day in Biz..

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mranderson says on Aug 27, 2008, 09:52:

Paleo, I didn´t know you spoke english. I´m impressed.

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tomtom33 says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:07:

Tone, I didn't realize that it was my job to police extranjeros. I have little interest in trying to fix anything, anywhere. And I guarantee that Colombians in general resent the hell out of any extranjero trying to fix anything in Colombia.

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paisa29 says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:12:

mranderson... she learns very fast. jajaja

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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Brians says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:12:

Toneloc I agree with everything you except what Tom mentioned. Not any gringo's job to police this issue. I for one hope they eliminate this crap out of Medellin because when I see these guys rolling around LLeras or where ever it is so annoying. To each there own but Paleo is correct the more it is flaunted the more come and then it is a bigger problem. Weed it out now and a little press about this will go long way.

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Brians says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:15:

P.S. I love when the medellin mansion is mentioned it immediately becomes the most active thread. Too bad the mods shut them down:)

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PALEOLITICO says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:18:

mr anderson: Today, the translators are super effectives. Do not deserve you're impressed. :)

Enseñame a enseñar.

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Lisa Zee says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:19:

PALEO has been studying English for a while. Good job your English is wonderful, and I agree with you 100%.!!

My family starting to comment that Medellin is getting polluted with sex tourist. ( we have enough pollution already)

Feliz Navidad!

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mranderson says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:20:

Now that´s the paleo that I know. With your cute little mistakes.

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PALEOLITICO says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:21:

pavo: Not legal everything are good.

In addition, many of these girls are minors. That if completely illegal.

Enseñame a enseñar.

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droble77 says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:23:

Isn't Loutron, the upscale "massage parlor," up the hill from this "Mansion" ?

I'd imagine it's much more low profile though, plus it's owned by a very rich local, and it doesn't have chicas from Bello, Itagui, and other poor "low-class" areas popping in and out through the day and night in one of the nicest parts of town (Poblado). At least this is the idea I get about this "Mansion" from what I've read here.

I don't really condone prostitution but I understand why it's quite common down there. "It is what it is" as I always like to say. Of course, if the girls are underaged, it's illegal not to mention just plain disgusting and wrong, and it should be stopped.

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paisa29 says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:25:

hola Paleo... bacano que digas lo que pensas, yo traté de hacerlo al principio pero me cansé de los comentarios desobligantes aquí.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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PALEOLITICO says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:32:

Hola paisita. Me importan un pepino los comentarios desobligantes. Toda persona tiene el derecho y el deber, de intentar (o al menos de protestar) para que las cosa que nos agobian y nos destruyen desaparezcan. Porque si no hacemos absolutamente nada, bajo el pretexto de que "ese problema siempre existe y existirá" nos lleva el berraco.

No me contaste como te fue en santa Elena en lo de los silleteros. escribime un MP.

Enseñame a enseñar.

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paisa29 says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:41:

mirá nada más lo que pasó con uno de mis post titulado ", Guys... Have you noticed the fact... There are almost no women here, What do you think is the main reason?" ni siquiera lo quisieron publicar aquí en el friendlytalkzone, entonces yo prefiero compartir mis pensamientos con las personas a las que de verdad les importa.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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PALEOLITICO says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:49:

Pero le preguntaste a los Mods porqué lo habían eleminado?. Seguramente fue un error o algo que pasó.

Pero yo hago mi comentario con respecto a eso: Las chicas que hay actualmente en PBH hacen por 20 cada una !!!!. Aquí hay mujeres muy inteligentes, interesantes, divertidas y bacanas.

Lo bueno y exclusivo siempre es poquito :)

Por ejemplo me encantaría que CK o HG estuvieran acá para secuestrar este post. Ellas son expertas en eso :).

Enseñame a enseñar.

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toneloc24 says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:51:

TomTom33: "Tone, I didn't realize that it was my job to police extranjeros. I have little interest in trying to fix anything, anywhere. And I guarantee that Colombians in general resent the hell out of any extranjero trying to fix anything in Colombia."

I agree. It's NOT your job. But in the end, since you live there, you and foreigners like you who live there will feel the pain behind that mess. So, I would be in your best interests to explain to some.....certain etiquettes. Not saying it's your job, just to your benefit.

Prostitution in legal in Colombia, 18 yrs and up. Pimping or being a purveyor of such is not. You can make your own opinion on where the Medellin Mansion and VIP spot fall into that definition. It would explain why DAS is "targeting" them.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people move somewhere and try to "fix" what has been ingrained in a culture for years. I have ZERO interest in doing this whenever I'm abroad, and for the most part, it's served me well.

Yes, we do things differently here in the USA. How about, even if you don't AGREE with the local way of doing things, just respect it and go about your business. Or when it gets to be too much, just leave. There's always the USA. Makes for less stress.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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paisa29 says on Aug 27, 2008, 10:52:

si, pregunté pero nunca me dieron respuesta. ya te envié un mensaje.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2008, 11:25:

Paisa29, me preguntaste a mí?

Desde hace mucho estoy tratando hacer que este foro sea mas frecuentado por mujeres y hemos progresado, tenemos mujeres que participan, que tienen opiniones y no tienen temor en expresarlos. Era por ustedes que acepté ser moderadora de PoorButHappy, me fastidiaba de sobremanera la actitud de muchos miembros masculinos que consideraban este foro un vestier de chicos jugadores de futbol, donde todo estaba permitido, sin importar que las pocas mujeres que participaban se sentian mal, ofendidas, ignoradas y hasta mofadas por que no compartían esa actitud y ambiente vulgar y ofensivo de esos tipos que van a Colombia tan solo por vicio o por buscar a mujeres de casgos ligeros.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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paisa29 says on Aug 27, 2008, 11:49:

no Desi, le pregunté a Kat1, ella me dijo que le iba a preguntar a Peter, pero hasta hoy no he recibido ninguna respuesta sobre eso.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2008, 12:14:

Seguro que Peter ya no se acordaba porque. El borra habitualmente borra los posts que tienen que ver mujeres colombianas, casas de citas, industria pornografica, donde conseguir prepagos etc y probablemente confundió tu thread con uno de ellos. No se porqué; tu pregunta era muy valida.

Pero como ya te dije, a mí me interesa mantener una participación equitativa femenina aquí, ya sean colombianas o extranjeras.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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esanch36 says on Aug 27, 2008, 12:43:

Come onnnnnn...Colombian men totally out number the crazy gringos runing around with prepagos...When i go out in places such as Bogota or Melgar i always see colombian men running around with prepagos about to bust out of there shirts. This is an ingrained culture thing that was here in colombia way before the dirty gringos arived.
thank you

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esanch36 says on Aug 27, 2008, 12:43:

Come onnnnnn...Colombian men totally out number the crazy gringos runing around with prepagos...When i go out in places such as Bogota or Melgar i always see colombian men running around with prepagos about to bust out of there shirts. This is an ingrained culture thing that was here in colombia way before the dirty gringos arived.
thank you

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gimmedub says on Aug 27, 2008, 13:21:

lol - interesting thread... reminds me of one of my fav. pastimes while sitting in the international lounge in bogota - try and spot the prepago...

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tomtom33 says on Aug 27, 2008, 13:24:

I would think that Loutron or Fase Dos or any similar establishment would be just as much of an embarrassment. Is DAS targeting them as well?

Is being an asshole illegal?

There are a lot of behaviors that I do not like. But when you go to bed at 8:00 pm, you see fewer of them.

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esanch36 says on Aug 27, 2008, 13:24:

gimmedub...that was my favorite pastime toooo!!!!!! I used to play it with friends when ever we went to the bogota beer company...

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esanch36 says on Aug 27, 2008, 13:31:

funny story...one time we were at the bogota beer company and this colombian guy was with his prepaga...well we struck up a conversation with them..and after awhile the prepaga was giving me the eye. So when her client got up to leave she slid me her number. I was thinking that she wanted to go out with me and date me for free, she was f#$# at amazing. So any way i call her the next day to go out and we meet up, go out for some drinks, the whole time im thinking she was into me and i was going to get lucky. Towards the end of the night she tells me the price for her services and Im like what the fuckkkkk..so i told her that all i had was 10mill what would that get me? She slaped me in the face and left.....damn prepagas...

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papiChulo says on Aug 27, 2008, 14:42:

esanch36.... spot on mate... "This is an ingrained culture thing that was here in colombia way before the dirty gringos arived.
thank you"

some of the rudest people I know don't smoke

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rocinante says on Aug 27, 2008, 15:02:

Take the exact same skimpy outfit and shoes put them on identical 25 year old twin sisters seperated at birth. One sister is a hooker from Guarne and the other is a college educated Prepago from Los Balsos.

A 50 year old Colombian is out in public with "Las Palmas" and a 50 year old gringo is out with "Guarne".

If you have no idea where I am going with this I'm not even going to bother.

Lets just say that gringo tourists have no idea who has class and who is a public embarrasment because you don't speak the language and understand the culture. To you the two women in the example are the same - identical twins busting out of their shirts.

But to Colombians, in public they are night and day. To say Colombians flaunt prepagos all the time, like the gringos means you really don't get the culture or language.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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droble77 says on Aug 27, 2008, 15:16:

Agree somewhat about the "ingrained culture thing" lol, but just because a local guy can do it doesn't mean that you should; as someone above said, we're just guests. You might think that's hypocritical bs but "it is what it is," whining about it is pointless. I'm a pretty liberal guy but I am very uncomfortable with some of these arrangements that are borderline exploitation or illegal; sometimes it's the girl that's exploited and sometimes it's the gringo. . . ;-))

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droble77 says on Aug 27, 2008, 15:21:

Good point roci. Many visitors just don't realize how class sensitive the locals are.

I suspect this is what led to this "little problem" at this so-called Mansion venue. Too many barrio girls zipping in and out in taxis in a very spiffy area of Poblado. I don't think the neighbors who are paying top estrata 6 COP to live there, will appreciate that. And with all the construction in that area, people are going to see something and complain sooner or later. . .

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Ctg Bound says on Aug 27, 2008, 15:27:

toneloc24,

If tomtom33, I or another person see a person with a obviouse prepago or doing something against what is classed as normal, I expect most people in life ignore it as its not their business.

If you go sticking a nose into other peoples business, it tends to come away bloody.

I take it you have been given a lot of nose bleeds?

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Brians says on Aug 27, 2008, 15:36:

spot on Roci.

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billyb says on Aug 27, 2008, 15:40:

Yes, roci is pretty much on the mark on that one.

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Titofijo says on Aug 27, 2008, 15:52:

Sounds like alot sexual frustration on here.

Prostitution is legal in Colombia

Colombians flaunt prepagos all the time, like the gringos ---- Go to Mangos on Saturdays

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toneloc24 says on Aug 27, 2008, 17:17:

CTG Bound-

Zero bloody noses, but have witnessed many a fight in Colombia between Colombians. Unfortunately, you guys in MDE/Poblado are probably gonna be subjected or lumped in with the "gringo sex mongers" and/or the source of chisme, esp. if local media has their way. There aren't that many foreigners in Medellin, but many of those coming are there for......???? Yeah, there eventually would've been problems.

Kinda reminds me of drug corners, where people permit it to go on for awhile, and remain unaffected by it. Then, more dealers show up and pretty soon, action needs to be taken as things get out of hand. However, the area becomes "known" and stigmatized, as do the folks from around there. The locals fight back. Maybe completely unwarranted for the broad brushstrokes to be painted so liberally, but people will talk.

Roci, so true that analogy.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Titofijo says on Aug 27, 2008, 18:01:

Maurice

Can you blow up your photo , so I could get a better look ?

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panthdave says on Aug 27, 2008, 18:05:

Damn is this post that important...The Mansion gets alot of attention..Now I know why there in trouble..

panthdave Miami

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Hispanic-Gringo says on Aug 27, 2008, 22:43:

DELETED

This type of discussion is not encouraged in PBH. There are other forums to discuss prostitution, sex tourism etc. This is not one of them.

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huskie says on Aug 27, 2008, 23:58:

Agree with you Hispanic, however, I am glad all those sex places are being sought after and their owners chased out of business once and for all.
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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La_Huella says on Aug 28, 2008, 01:44:

Tone, you are wrong. Owning and operating a brothel is in fact completely legal in Colombia, as long as you are in compliance with the law. Compliance means no underage workers, regular testing of all workers twice monthly, and in certain juristictions, obligatory use of condoms for all penetrative sexual acts.

That, boys and girls, is the law in Colombia, as set forth by the Constitutional Court. That is Colombia as it is, as it wants to be. Prostitution. Legal. Possibly in your own neighborhood. Nothing you can do about it. If you don't like it, I suggest you move somewhere else, maybe like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, where you and all your neighbors can be free to be as sexually repressed as you wish.

If you go to www.internationalsexguidfe.in, fiond your way to Medellin and read the actual thread on the Medellin Mansion. It appears the only thing the DAS has on any of those people is a mere noise complaint. So all you retarded social conservatives foaming at the mouth, dream on, Colombia remains a free country where prostitution is simply another profession, like medicine, dentistry, law etc.

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eafit2005 says on Aug 28, 2008, 02:26:

Hispanic, your post made me laugh, finally someone who stands up against this gringo and hooker bashing ;-) ... even though I don`t agree with everything you say...
Does anyone of you read "La Chiva"??? (www.lachiva.com). I do and there I find about a million things that are far worse than prostitution.

Examples:
oficina de envigado (sicarios etc.),
atracos,
maltrato y abuso dentro de familias,
cobra de "vacunas" en barrios pobres y bares/restaurantes,
...

If Colombia wasn`t such a poor country with wealth distributed so unequally many of those problems wouldn`t exist. I remember shaking my head walking around close to Oviedo, seeing a Audi Q7 and Porsche Cayenne driving down Av. El Poblado with a poor crippled guy begging for monedas at the redlight.....

I don`t have anything against the Q7-guy, but in Germany (or USA or any other developed country) the crippled guy would have been in hospital or rehabilitation and not on the street!

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Robert Jorge says on Aug 28, 2008, 02:54:

Ya, I have never seen a bum in the US - or Europe. I personally hit one in Paris with my rental car in '98. 10 gypsies converged on my car near the arc triumph and forcefully cleaned my windows - at my protest. When I didn't hand them cash, they stood in front of the car. A Renault turbo diesel beats human bodies. One thing cool about France - no cops. (Unless you're on the Metro)

He who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

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tomtom33 says on Aug 28, 2008, 04:05:

Why is the sex with minors always thrown in? No one ever advocated such a thing. We all agree that it is immoral and illegal.

Try arguing reality, Byron.

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tomtom33 says on Aug 28, 2008, 04:19:

On another slant, I know exactly what it is to be stigmatized as a sex tourist because I am not Colombian. I lived in Laguito(Cartagena) for 4 years. This stuff is not new in Colombia. La Dolce Vita in Laguito has been "raided" with TV cameras since at least January of 2003. I was there.

I personally never travel around in larger groups. I do not drink. I do not use any drugs. I do not smoke nor do I gamble. But I do enjoy a bit of pay for play on occasion, never with anyone under 18.

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tejasmarcos says on Aug 28, 2008, 05:11:

never? how would you know for sure? are they making babe carbon dating kits these days?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tomtom33 says on Aug 28, 2008, 05:35:

Point taken. Never knowingly.

Actually I prefer them to be older than 22. More experience.

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Brians says on Aug 28, 2008, 05:47:

Tejas's wife hasn't even been born yet;)

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SUERTE GRINGO says on Aug 28, 2008, 06:00:

Interesting topic. It seems the locals are not too happy with the going-ons of a few tourists. I was interrogated myself during dinner the other night in Parque Lleras. My English speaking travel guide invited me to dinner with a group of friends and family. At the table the discussion came up about older tourists in town for only one thing which we all know what that is all about. One of the female guest who was present is an attorney and she asked me what hotel I was staying at which I told her that I was staying at a private apartment that was recommended to me by a local. There were a few questions regarding my intentions in Medellin which I basically answered honesty. The woman then mentioned that DAS has three hotels on the radar which they are very interested in keeping on eye on guest, management, visitors, as well as the overall activities at these hotels. The hotels are the Mansion, VIP, and Castillo all of which I was informed cater specifically to single men. It also seems DAS has been alerted to a couple of websites that not only promote sex tourism but also post naked pictures of many of the women in Medellin. I have not been to any of these hotel but it seems that guests of these establishments are being targeted as sex tourists. It’s interesting that in a town which was once the murder capital of the world that they are not too happy with what has attracted a new wave of tourists seeking new adventures in Colombia. I did see many American tourists during the Flower Festival but since I’ve only seen a handful in and about Poblado. I’ve been here for about three weeks now and have completely enjoyed my stay so much that I may soon be calling Medellin my new home for a better part of the year.

“If you're gonna eat your crackers in bed, you're gonna have to sleep with crumbs."

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tejasmarcos says on Aug 28, 2008, 06:06:

brians - i am harvesting her genomes now in a petri dish....

;)

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Brians says on Aug 28, 2008, 06:21:

All DAS has to do is basically make themselves a nuisance to those hotels i.e. stop in each other day to check IDs or some other reason they can make up. These guests would be shook up and word would quickly spread. There are plenty of other destinations that future guests could go without being bothered or nervous. Thus business would fall off and the Hotels would wither and die. Only have to look at what one TV crew has done to business at the Mansion.

I for one hope they do this only for my own self serving interests because these guests are losers and they simple annoy me when I see them walking around medellin.

I was at Mondongo's having lunch with my wife during the Feria in medellin and I saw in 1 hour at least 8 gringos and 4 of them where with ridiculously dressed pre-pagos 30 years younger. Acting like they are Don Juan's with their bellies and double chins. Just annoys me and I guess it really shouldn't. That is why I avoid hanging around Tejas too much:)

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esanch36 says on Aug 28, 2008, 07:04:

colombians dont show off???.....Damn i gues you gues have never been to to Clubs in bogota or Medellin.....you always see the traquetos(Drug dealers) with their pregagas. What happens alot of time is that these drug dealers most of the time are from smaller citiesa and when they make it big, move to the cities. Usually they bring some of their local girls from the their pueblos give them fake tits and prance them around the big cities. But hey Im all for cleaning out those dirty gringos...Im going to medellin in November, and it always makes me cringe when i see those pasty white gringos,,with their beer bellies looking like their 6 months pregnant and sandals with white socks...vayase gringos!!!!!

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billyb says on Aug 28, 2008, 07:11:

Yeah, but traquetos are not your average colombian, they're over compensating also. That's why they need the trashy looking strumpets and Mr. T starter sets.

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esanch36 says on Aug 28, 2008, 07:17:

ive also noticed alot of traquetos dressing like rappers..

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2008, 07:22:

La_Huella, even if prostitution in Colombia is not criminalized, it's neither promoted by the the Constitution; it's tolerated because it exists and because the lawmakers know that it is not going to disappear easily. So the law proceeds to REGULATE it, in order to protect sex workers and keeping the minors out of it.

The spirit of the law is well-expressed here, since you read Spanish:

"En Colombia la prostitución en adultas no es un delito, pero esta situación no garantiza su acceso a la seguridad. Por el contrario las deja en una balanza donde por un lado la sociedad las rechaza y las persigue y por otro no solo las empuja a esto, sino que estimula el crecimiento de su oferta. La marginalidad social como productode la sociedad de consumo "Para crear y mantener este mundo es necesaria la existencia de una demanda, es obligatorio que miembros de nuestro entorno social quieran pagar y busquen hacerlo...Es la propia sociedad quien alimenta la creación de un problema del cual se agarran quienes están inmersos en las redes de la marginalidad social." En sítesis, la prostitución no es delito, pero tampoco es trabajo. Al respecto la Corte Constitucional Colombiana señala:... Para el Estado social y democrático de derecho la prostitución no es deseable, por ser contraria a la dignidad de la persona humana el comerciar con el propio ser. Pero no puede comprometerse en el esfuerzo estéril de prohibir lo que inexorablemente se va a lleva a cabo y por ello tolera como mal menor, es decir, como una conducta no ejemplar ni deseable, pero que es preferible tocar y controlar, a que se esparza clandestina e indiscriminadamente en la sociedad... Su referencia sin un análisis muy afianzado solo demuestra el carácter peyorativo y discriminatorio hacia la persona misma de la prostituta, es la plaga a controlar... tanto se invoca su protección y su derecho a la dignidad que mas allá del papel no se hace nada por liberarla. Nada aparte del ofrecimiento de programas de rehabilitación de algunas ONGy obviamente de la potestad otorgada a cada departamento y municipio para su tratamiento.

Las chicas prepago son la ultima modalidad de esta figura, y al respecto la ley para las prostitutas "elegantes" aun no se ha pronunciado. "

The key sentence would be: "En síntesis, la prostitución no es delito, pero tampoco es trabajo."

http://www.monografias.com/trabajos41/reglamentacion-prostitucion/regl...

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Hispanic-Gringo says on Aug 28, 2008, 08:10:

It's funny how truth is deleted under the "guise" that prostitution is not a theme spoken on this page, when that is all that is being discussed ! Who ever runs this page must be a "stiffer" of free speach which only wants his point of view heard and "Paleolitico's",you ought to be ashamed and move to "China" where there is no "free speach" you would probably be welcomed with open arms ! And who is this "ignorameous" Byron Kosner" ! I was at no point justyfying "sex with minors", I was condemming it and pointing out that no "gringos" participate in it only your "paisas" and "locals" ! Neither myself nor any "gringo" I know or have heard of have been found engaging in these activities, only locals, that was my whole point, Mr.Byron, it's "home made" and consumed by "locals" ! You should take a course on reading, Mr. Byron, or at the very least on understanding what you read !

A word to the administrator, do you plan to delete this post to ? And allow people to take what I say out of context without allowing others to read the original post ! Your big on "sensor" when you don't like what is being said, very convenient, typical of most liberals, just "shot down" what goes against your own "point of view". You shoud move to "Shanghai" with your Chinese friends ! So much for "free speach" in this page !

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2008, 08:23:

Just keep the exchange civil and stick to facts and you will have no problem.

The other mods may have another opinion about your ramblings and this thread in general.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Hispanic-Gringo says on Aug 28, 2008, 08:50:

I do stick to the "facts' "Mr. Moderator", your the one deleting them ! And in the process allowing others to "mistate" what I have said and accusse me falsely of engaging with "minors" ! I don't see any attempt on your part in "deleting' Mr. Byrons' false statements about what I have said or even attempting to correct them !

You certainly are quick to response "negatively" to "opposing views" ! I don't see you calling out mr. Byron for his "uncivil" remarks and "deffamation" of my character ! Could it be because you have similar views, I wonder.....!

I ramble coherrantly, you should have let others make that decision and not delete my comments ! You allowed Mr.Paleolitico's ramblings about "gringos" togo unchecked, or was it your "Political Correctness" that doesn't allow the truth to be spoken, while allowing the more"fashionable" "gringo" "bashing" ! Or could it be something more simple than that, maybe you call it "rambling" because i didn't put any paragraphs ! I didn't have time Mr. Moderator ! Sorry, if you think "appearance" or "grammer" is more important than "truth" ! Here, I'll put some paragraphs for you !

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InsideLookingOut says on Aug 28, 2008, 08:57:

OK, here is a more realistic viewpoint. Take it for what it's worth.

Yes, the Medellin Mansion has increased the number of foreign tourists coming to Medellin who might enjoy finding sexual partners. However, since between both the Mansion and it's sister property there are only 22 rooms available there is hardly room for a "mass migration" of sex tourists at any one time.

The Mansion does not make any money from the girls. They merely offer a venue for guys who are staying there to meet them. It's an old, successful business practice: Bring in the girls and the guys will follow.

The Mansion was cited for not having a license for prostitution. This is a fine point of law since they are not actually "practicing" prostitution. What the girls do with the guests is entirely up to them.

I have been in Oviedo Mall, Parque Lleras and Mango's many times and have never seen more than a handful of "gringos with their prepagos" at any one time. I have also never seen anyone dressed or acting disrespectful to any of the local people. I think some people on this site are exaggerating their findings. You act as if the girls from the barrios are standing on the street corners of Poblado offering their charms. The Mansion is located on a side street that dead-ends into a parking lot. When the girls arrive by taxi there is no one around to notice unless they are looking out the office windows. Since most activities at the Mansion took place on Sundays that would leave a very small number of people in those buildings.

Yes, you might see a few gringos in some of the strip clubs or MPs or casas but those are hardly the places you are going to run into grandma and the kids anyway.

Yes, there is a very small percentage of men coming to Medellin to enjoy the many fun and exciting activities to be found there but will it become another Thailand or Amsterdam or Costa Rico or Rio? Not very likely.

If you are offended or think foreign men look strange in Medellin you should travel to some of the other cities of the world.

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La_Huella says on Aug 28, 2008, 09:23:

Desi, that sounds like a comment from some socially conservative politician or a dissenting judge to me, and that is not what the Constitution itself says. The constitution simply affirms that the law can not tell us what to do and not to do with our bodies. The fact is, by definition it ***is a job like any other here, and it's not going away any time, not soon, not ever.

People on here just need to learn some tolerance and respect for others' personal liberties and stop sticking their noses where it doesn't belong. Nobody should be obligated to be stuffed into anybody else's little reality tunnel. I find some of the ones on here blatantly offensive.

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capt_j says on Aug 28, 2008, 10:04:

OK, what *is* the difference between a hooker from the barrio and a college educated prepago? What's the cultural difference we're supposed to be discerning?

I can only guess that the latter has some savoir faire that the former lacks, but anybody who can explain the etiquette should pipe up.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2008, 10:20:

La_Huella, give me the reference to the article in the constitution. I've been going through the 108 pages of it and nowhere does it say that prostitution is just another job.

It does, however prohibit such activities as conducting to "riesgo social" (article 26)

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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droble77 says on Aug 28, 2008, 10:21:

lol, and the posts just keep coming.

Let me just add one more thing:
I hope people realize here there are DOZENS of "casas" or "massage parlors" right in Centro of Medellin not to mention strip clubs or dive bars. All of them owned and operated by locals I'm sure. I must have the sleaze bag sex tourist look because I always have guys trying to give me the flyers to these places. There was a couple of days I tried to collect a bunch of them for shits and giggles but I threw them all out so I don't even remember the names. . . :0)

I am by no means an expert on this subject, but it's surprising at least to me that a foreigner can get away with operating this type of "grey area" biz, even if it's not officially a brothel.

What I suspect happens a lot with these gringos is that they arrange rendezvous with the girls OUTSIDE of these venues they work in, taking them back to the Mansion, an apartment, motel, whatever. Eventually the owners find out about this and are not happy as they are out of a cut like a room rental fee.

Just another possibility on why this "Mansion" is in trouble. . . it comes down to controlling the girls. (Which I agree is not right)

As a liberal guy, in theory I believe anything between 2 consenting adults is fine, but I do admit prostitution can be problematic because of the potential for exploitation. And sometimes it's the gringo who's exploited, especially when he pays the "gringo price" ;-))

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La_Huella says on Aug 28, 2008, 10:24:

Nowhere does it specifically mention prostitution in the Constitution. But the Constitutional Court has affirmed time and again that in fact it is a legal activity, which means de facto that it is now a job like any other.

I find the attitudes of some on here ridiculous, condemning foreigners (and not their fellow Colombians) for an activity that is not only legal in Colombia and well within everyone's rights by clear legal precedent, but in my opinion necessary for the correct functioning of a healthy society.

And I most certainly do not have a problem with gringos overpaying. As they say down here "el vivo vive del bobo"... which means more or less the shrewd one lives off of the dumb one. There is nothing wrong with that.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2008, 10:49:

De la misma manera, la Corte Constitucional, mediante sentencia T-620/95, del Magistrado Ponente Vladimiro Naranjo Mesa ha tenido oportunidad de manifestar:

"Por otro lado, es conocido y aceptado el principio según el cual la ley positiva no puede prohibir todo lo que la moral rechaza, porque atentaría contra la libertad. De acuerdo con lo anterior, jurídicamente hablando puede decirse que en aras del derecho al libre desarrollo de la personalidad, las gentes pueden acudir a la prostitución como forma de vida, pero al hacerlo no pueden ir en contra de los derechos prevalentes de los niños, ni contra la intimidad familiar, ni contra el derecho de los demás a convivir en paz en el lugar de su residencia."

“De esta manera, si la condición de drogadicto, homosexual o prostituta no son en sí mismas jurídicamente reprochables, y, menos aún, susceptibles del calificativo de "antisociales" –a menos, naturalmente, que en su actividad o ejercicio se afecten derechos de terceros, o trasciendan los linderos del orden social-, no le es dado entonces a la ley, sin contrariar el orden constitucional, determinar medidas represivas o sancionatorias para tales conductas�.

Lo anteriormente expuesto, tanto en la Constitución como en la sentencia de la Corte Constitucional, quiere decir, que la prostitución no es ilegal y por lo tanto, el Estado puede reglamentar la obtención de recursos provenientes de su actividad, a través de la imposición de tributos, como el IVA.

Sin embargo, hay que aclarar que no son quienes ejercen la prostitución como opción de trabajo los responsables del tributo, sino los dueños de los establecimientos donde se realiza la actividad, ya que son los mayores beneficiarios de ella."

I looks like we read the same text and get a different message, La_Huella. I read it and what registers in my mind is NOT de facto acceptance but admittance that it exists, is not illegal, it's tolerated but ....the wording in itself is in no way positive. The judges certainly don't make it sound like it was something "necessary in a healthy society".

Moreover, I kind of liked this study for the reasons that prostitution exists in Colombia:

"CAUSAS DE LA PROSTITUCIÓN

Los investigadores mencionados anteriormente han encontrado cuatro causas que determinan la existencia de la prostitución:

a) Sociocultural
b) Socioeconómico (factor femenino)
c) Biosocial (factor masculino)
d) Psicosocial



FACTOR SOCIOCULTURAL

Este es uno de los factores primordiales que ha influido en la prostitución, ya que ha surgido una alta escala de mujeres que han tenido que acudir a este sistema, puesto que la ignorancia ha prevalecido en un núcleo de personas muy numerosas donde se inducen a las relaciones premaritales, cayendo en un medio erótico vulgar.

FACTOR SOCIOECONÓMICO

Una de la causas que permite que exista este trabajo en países subdesarrollados como Colombia es la necesidad de sobrevivir. La prostitución no es un fenómeno urbano exclusivamente. En los grandes tiempos de pobreza es mayor el número de mujeres que recorren los pueblos adaptándose a los calendarios de feria, mercados, cosechas.

Cuando una región tiene mayor afluencia de hombres porque se realiza una construcción, la explotación de una mina o hay recolecta de cosecha se presenta una amplia oferta de mujeres que esperan mejorar sus ingresos comerciando con su cuerpo.

Las ganancias económicas, en términos generales, pueden ser mucho mayores en la prostitución que en la mayoría de los trabajos posibles para éstas mujeres.

El perfil social de la mujer prostituida es el de una persona perteneciente a una clase baja, aunque también las hay de clase alta, pero son las menos y en la mayoría de los casos no califican para el mercado laboral. En estas condiciones el camino más fácil es la prostitución.


FACTOR BIOSOCIAL

Este es el factor masculino el cual consiste en satisfacer el deseo o el apetito sexual que es reforzado por el condicionamiento cultural machista, produciendo el fenómeno prostitutivo, el cual se genera muchas veces por la promiscuidad del hombre, por los matrimonios monogámicos e indisolubles y por el llamado requisito de la virginidad premarital, los cuales fueron impuestos en una sociedad conservadora; sin embargo, hay otros hombres que tienen acceso a este tipo de relaciones "vanales" por defectos físicos o mentales, por la timidez, la vejez, y las inclinaciones parafílicas, la renuncia a adquirir obligaciones o a hacer la corte y la renuencia a comprometerse afectivamente o por el contrario la incapacidad para ello.

FACTOR PSICOSOCIAL

Existe una motivación psicosocial para que los hombres frecuenten los prostibulos; este consiste en la búsqueda de compañía, amistad e intimidad en un ambiente relajante, para descansar así del estrés que produce la vida moderna, también se usa para distraerse de su tedioso pero respetable matrimonio.

Los burdeles son los escenarios extraoficiales del machismo, y el acto sexual únicamente viene a ser la culminación del ritmo sexual del varón.

Por último en los burdeles es donde se culmina el acto erótico, en el cual el hombre se escapa de su vida social.

Se ha comprobado, que de todos los factores mencionados, el que tiene mayor preponderancia es el económico. La falta de oportunidades laborales induce a muchas personas a la prostitución. Sin embargo, de la actividad no solo se benefician quienes la ejercen de manera directa, sino intermediarios, como los propietarios de los burdeles y los proxenetas, quienes generalmente obtienen las mayores ganancias.

Quienes ejercen de manera directa la prostitución, hombres y mujeres, son personas que en la mayoría de los casos carecen de seguridad social. Sin embargo, los proxenetas y dueños de burdeles, casas de lenocinio o lupanares, se lucran sin que aporten un peso para la seguridad social de los trabajadores sexuales y mucho menos le tributen al Estado Colombiano por tal actividad."

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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lpdiver says on Aug 28, 2008, 16:39:

The downfall of the MM is primarily caused by the invasion of turf. Prostutuion is controlled in the area by certain individuals. THEY are the cause of the downfall.

I jokingly suggested opening a strip joint here in South Louisiana to my wife and then had to explain to her about the mafia not liking people stealing their business.

Differnt country, identical circumstances.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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panthdave says on Aug 28, 2008, 16:56:

I really think they did too much promotion on the internet,advertising, and acting like big shots around town....Those kind of businesses need to stay conservative and be selective on there clients...and also no mad parties...and also don't make enemies..You always stay friends with your enemies....always...Number One Rule don't let Greed take over..

Oh Well.....there you have it...

panthdave Miami

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 7, 2008, 21:51:

Nice rant.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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morphus says on Sep 7, 2008, 22:00:

Ha ha...Sounds a little extreme to me.

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morphus says on Sep 7, 2008, 22:15:

How about just meeting a Colombiana that does'nt do hooker work and renting a modest apartment?

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Atogob says on Sep 29, 2008, 00:25:

This whole thread makes me...well... just really sad. Man's wreckless cruelty to man is to blame here. Not gringos or Colombianos.

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