An approach to Colombia's situation

Lalo says on Feb 14, 2004, 15:18:

Thank you Sebastian—I enjoyed your article very much. I read it aloud to my partner and it caused a good discussion. We are moving to Bogotá very soon, and can't wait to become—in a small way—Colombians. It was the soul of the Colombian peoples that touched our hearts and made us want to be there with you in your beautiful country and no longer in our homeland, the US, where it feels like the soul is dieing out rapidly. I have spoken to many Americans who would like to experience a place like Colombia for themselves.
Best,
Lalo

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camilo says on Feb 16, 2004, 06:54:

Sebastian, thanks for taking the time and telling the dtory like it is. I agree with you 100%. It is a shame that the blind European NGO´s can´t see how good Uribe its been for our country. History will tell.

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Sr Tertius says on Feb 20, 2004, 14:14:

A few problems with your approach "(...)most Colombians are the friendliest, most fun-loving people you could ever hope to meet."

Mmhh. Not a nice thing to say about yourself. I would let others judge that.

"Sadly enough Colombia’s natural an geographical advantages have been misused for probably one of the most profitable business in the world, drug trafficking."

If you are attributing the drug-trafficking problem to geographical variables (it isn’t completely clear from your post), I’d love to see how large coca plantations directed towards the production of cocaine flourished in Bolivia (well below the equator, no oceans) for decades, and how landlocked Afghanistan (with its hostile weather) is nowadays the main source of opium and heroin. Some Colombians rarely recognize an alternative, probably more sensible, explanation of it’s drug-trafficking problem: Traditional parties undermined the formation of a strong State, unlike other countries in the continent, where the State is stronger than the political parties competing for its control (hence our “civil” tradition in politics). This was fertile ground for para-state organizations, such a number of well organized guerrilla movements, paramilitary organizations, and drug-trafficking mafias.

"Colombia’s recent past has been overshadowed by violence"

Is there a period of time since the 1820’s when Colombia’s history hasn’t been overshadowed by violence?

"This groups [the Communist guerrillas], used to have some popular support up to the year 1989 when the Berlin wall came down. After that they lost their ideological support from the USSR, and became simply terrorist groups nourished with money from drugs."

This is the big narco-guerilla fallacy. The “loss of ideology”, as if it had ever played any important role. Regardless of its revolutionary rhetorics, the FARC has always been peasant self-defense groups, and have always been labelled as “terrorists”. Its base is politically marginalized peasantry, where it has enjoyed legitimacy among the population (whether we like it or not). I had the opportunity of witnessing this in Cabrera, Cund., only 5 hrs. away from Bogota. If you really believe that the FARC has no popular base, I invite you to go to this small town and ask the people (get to know them first, though, they might think you are an informant, if not a “peasant soldier”). They’ll tell you about the “beauties” that the last two governments have done in their town.

"The incapacity of the government to protect its citizens, help to the creation of illegal paramilitary forces, that helped to intensify the conflict, and the crisis."

Large landowners had nothing to do with that process, right?

"Anyways, the FARC just didn’t want to do it [the peace process] (it is more profitable to traffic with drugs than to have a simple job in the civil life) they just brought people, to teach them terrorist tactics, from all over the world, bought more arms, and train their soldiers, while they were attacking, killing, kidnapping, and displacing more than 1 million people, mostly in remote areas, the very poor citizens of our country the ones that they say they are fighting for."

This, I suppose, is a good synthesis of the rhetorics of the “uribistas” (I don’t know if you suscribe to their views, but your post certainly suggests that): “The FARC does not want peace, because war and drug-trafficking are more profitable.” So, what was that peace process in 1982 all about? The FARC, M-19 and Quintin Lame movement were very close to sign a peace process. At that time, the FARC demonstrated that, provided a guarantee to their physical existence, it was willing to turn into a regular political party (the Unión Patriótica, or UP). Remember how the UP was the third political force in the 1986 elections? Remember how they democratically took over several local governments in the late eighties? And do you remember how it was physically anihilated by a coallition of government and paramilitary organizations? Do you think this may have been a stronger incentive for the FARC to keep waging war rather than a wall falling in Berlin? I wonder why you excluded this part of our history in your description.

The FARC continued the war during the peace talks of the Pastrana government. Why are you surprised by that? The Pastrana government did the same thing too! It was agreed that a truce was part of the agenda, not a pre-requisite of the talks (remember 1982??). The failure of the peace talks was as much the fault of the FARC as of the Pastrana government.

Also, according to the “Profile of Internal Displacement: Colombia”, drafted by the Norwegian Refugee Council (one of those ignorant European NGOs, I guess), most internal displacement in Colombia is attributed to the AUC, not the guerrillas, and had nothing to do with the “zona de despeje”.

"Colombians where sick of that, trapped in our homes and cities, because we were afraid of traveling too far, and everyday, we wondered, why is this continuing?"

Do you expect us to feel sorry because the Colombian civil war ruined your plans for vacations? If that’s what was worrying you the most at the time, then at least don’t generalize your frivolity to the rest of us Colombians.

"Since then [when Uribe took power], the country has become safer, the terrorist groups have been losing power therefore violence has reduced."

Go to Cabrera, Cund., and say that please. I’m sure they’ll appreciate it.

"The economy is growing in rates not seen in many years, and unemployment rates are lower."

Lower than when? We are still in the upper teens as we’ve been all along since 1996. Have you checked our national debt? Have you checked the growth of the Thai economy right before it collapsed in the early nineties?

"You just have to talk a Colombian nowadays, probably he/she will tell you…"

Not this Colombian. Certainly not those involved in the defense of worker’s rights, free speech and human rights. Those of us who would rather build their own nation instead of waiting for a messianic caricature to build it for us (hey, who has any time now, with all this travelling to do!), are (at least) very worried.

"Finally, if you are thinking of visiting Colombia, don’t be afraid of doing so, of course you should be careful and avoid some places"

Yes, avoid Cabrera, Cund. You may get the wrong idea about some parts of Colombia, right?

I wonder when will the Colombian petit burgeousie will grow up, politically, so that it stops caring so much about the image of Colombia and starts caring more about the problems of Colombia. Its frivolity (e.g., worrying more about their holiday plans than the living conditions of the poor majority) has dominated the politics of Colombia for far too long. And you can't find a better symbol of such frivolity than Alvaro Uribe.

Disclaimer 1: Despite everything I’ve said, I’m optimistic. A civil alternative to the authoritarianism of Uribe is building up, and the recent local elections (back to back with the failed government “referendum”) demonstrated it has a strong future as a political force. That is, if it isn’t eliminated the way the UP was.

Disclaimer 2: A typical uribista would probably say that I support the FARC. I don’t. But since a typical uribista is, like their leader, pretty hard-headed, there’s no point in debating that. I just don’t. At all.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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sebasenbogotá says on Feb 20, 2004, 17:42:

I respect your comment Yes I am a Uribista, and believe or not, I also know the inmense social problems Colombia has, and know that there is a lot of things that have yet to be solve, but in my short life I am 17 years old, I hadn't had a single moment of hope, and peace .

I believe in this president, and I know he is not perfect as nobody on earth, but I defenitely have hope. Is also good to hear your version I already said mine, and I really mean it(sorry for not having as much knowledge as you seem to have), it will be good to hear the version of more people with different view points, that is one of the things this site is for, deliberation, and everybody makes a point that not everybody has to agree with. As I don't agree with some of the things you said.

First I regret not saying that Paramilitary groups(AUC etc) are as terrorist, and have killed and displaced thousands of people, and also are nourished with money from drugs, and people that must pay them, they are as bad as Guerrilla.

But I think your opinion is as biased toward the people that says Uribe is an authoritarian monster, that nothing has happened in the country, and the things are just the same, that economy is not better(3% drop in unemployment is nothing, and almost 4% of economic groups, is also nothing) you will say that the people without a formal job is more(I invite you to read the dinero magazine www.dinero.com there is an interesting article about it).

Also that the guerrillas are not terrorist, and their actions are just political (what about, El Nogal, Neiva airport, Machuca, infrahuman conditions, to the soldiers and Colombians kidnapped, children soldiers, etc). Also Uribe hasn't done anything about security (reduction in 5800 people, in the homicide figure, reduction of 58% in union members assasination, reduction of 50% in teachers assasination, reduction of 50% in displacement, 30% in kidnapping etc) that is probably nothing as well, and the figures are not correct?.

And he has been there just one year and a half, shouldn't that give me hope for the future?.

I really don't know about Cabrera because I don't live near it, maybe you could tell us about your experience, because where I live, most and I say most people(not just burgeosie) think FARC are not good at all, that they haven't done anything good for society in a long time, I think they could do a lot with the millions of dollars they have?

I also feel that we have the right to say the good things such as how we can travel again, do you think just rich people travel ?, actually most of the people was transported by bus last december, more than 20 million, many of them didn't go on holiday for fun, but went to visit their families in places they werent allowed to visit for the actions of the armed groups. So is not just the traver leisure factor or is it?

Sorry if i sounded frivol, I don't want to diminish the big problems we have, and all the things people in conflict areas have suffered, but I think people on the website should know how the government has retaken control of many parts that where forbidden because the only law in those places was the guerrilla or the AUC forces.

I also think Colombia should be recognized for its beauty, and the quality of its people( I do think most Colombians are good, and fun-loving, and I am sorry you took it in the way that I wanted to show off myself, I didn't mean that )

I am convinced Uribe is an important part of Colombia's recovery but he is not God, and all of us have to help. Who knows if Navarro(leader of the opposition party) could be our president in the future, I think there is a lot of good people on the left, but in this moment of our histoy I am convinced Uribe is the right person for the job.

So thank you very much for your comment, it helps to enrich our knowledge.

Suerte ! Sebas

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 24, 2004, 13:50:

Sr. Tertius, you are certainly entitled to your opinions and we are certainly entitled to ours. The vast majority of Colombians disagree with you of course and would agree whole-heartedly with Sebastian's comments. I thank God that your viewpoint is only held by a few or else Colombia would continue to be a land of violence and anarchy. As it is, the Colombian people have finally decided that they have had enough and the only way to restore peace AND justice is by winning the war against the narcotrafficers decisively. Uribe may be the greatest leader in Colombian history. Viva Colombia!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sr Tertius says on Feb 24, 2004, 16:37:

And Liberals were devils... “The vast majority of Colombians disagree with you of course and would agree whole-heartedly with Sebastian's comments”

Why are you so sure? Public opinion surveys, which are rarely conducted in rural areas or “red zones”, show that most Colombians have a favourable image of Mr. Uribe. That I do not dispute. But to say that most people “agree whole-heartedly” with Sebas’ comments is quite an exaggeration, don’t you think? For instance, no serious Colombianist would agree with the explanation of the conflict in Colombia as derived from its geographical situation. In that sense, my explanation is far more mainstream. Also, it is pretty well established that the FARC is, for the most part, a peasant self-defense organization. That doesn’t mean that their actions are “political”, as Sebas suggests I believe, or that they are “terrorists” or “narcotraffickers”. In fact, I don’t see how any of those terms help at all in understanding the Colombian conflict (they do seem to help venting some frustation, though).

Are you suggesting that most Colombians would disagree that the UP was massacred during the late eighties? Would they say that I made that up? Could you be more specific on what you think most Colombians disagree from what I said, and why you think that?

Do you believe that polls are a good evaluation of policy? If so, why isn’t anyone asking people what they think about that little debt that Mr. Junguito got us in last year with the IMF?

Also, when you say “I thank God that your viewpoint is only held by a few or else Colombia would continue to be a land of violence and anarchy”, do you suggest that if my opinion was (as pressumably isn’t) wholly or partially shared by most Colombians, more deaths would occur? If so, then I am not entitled to my opinion, because it would be immoral. In fact, someone should do something about me, arrest me or something, right? Because of my opinion. If most Colombians shared this idea (that other people’s opinions may be dangerous), I believe we would be in bigger problems than we are. Fortunately, only Mr. Uribe and his followers believe this whole-heartedly.

"Uribe may be the greatest leader in Colombian history."

And so the "pajaros" thought of Laureano Gomez, and look where that got us into. By the way, wasn't the Liberal party considered a terrorist organization during that time? Mr. Uribe certainly didn't mind that when he became a member. I wonder how many Violencias we are going to need before we learn our lesson.

P.S. I'll respond to Sebas' reply as soon as I get some time.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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vladimiro says on Feb 27, 2004, 09:47:

Colombian Countryside vs. Cities "Colombian Village Fears for its Livelihood"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3705638,00.html

The Colombian military recently took over the FARC controled town of Miraflores, whose residents rely on illegal crops for a living. Defense Minister Jorge Alberto Uribe told villagers in a speech that they have been liberated from the FARC and that their crops will soon be fumigated.

"Residents stood stone-faced during Uribe's speech, shying away when approached by journalists and refusing to shake hands with officials."

I would be interested to know if there is a difference in opinion regarding the conflict between the Colombians living in the city, and the peasant farmers living in the countryside? Between those that have to pay the price in a war that is mainly waged in the countryside, and those living in the safety of Colombian cities.

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Nacholoco says on Mar 9, 2004, 02:51:

El punto de vista super criollo! Sr Tertius and Sebas. Sebas you have a very positive view (almost too good to be true) on the situation Colombia has faced for decades. I do not want to sound insulting but this is the kind of view I hear from the typical Bogotano who thinks he knows the situation so well because he reads EL TIEMPO on a daily basis but has never traveled to a remote location like URABA or CAQUETA and will probably never see the reality of things does not know why the paramilitary groups spurred and thinks that the guerrila have been evil ever since they started existing . People who think this way always think that exterminating the guerrilla and Paramilitary Groups is the only way to peace, and keep thinking that intensifying the war will solve the problem in Colombia. ANd Sr Tertius, you remind me of my IDS professor in Canada who thinks that "it is pretty well established FARC is for the most part a peasant self-defense organization". Composed mainly of peasnts IT IS, adding the fact that its composed also by children the ages ranging from 9 to 17 many of them bein forced into FARC . WELL established INDEED, some of their commanders have PHD's from Harvard University example SIMON TRINIDAD, vey well educated leaders. SELF DEFENCE, not any more , they are defending their COCA fields. The thing about your view is that it is stuck in the past the FARC that became after War of Villarica, its been 60 or so years and FARC unfortunately because of the stupidity of Colombia's leaders (Pinilla) (Gomez) (pretty much every president) and specially the MILITARY have grown to become 20,000 strong. The interesting thing about FARC is that they have to blame themselves for creating Paramilitary groups their ARCH ENEMY #1. Starting from MAS (Muerte a Secuestradores)and later on the ACCU after working together with the Medellin and cali cartels during the COCA boom. It can be said that FARC got too greedy and started kidnapping members of the cartels started a blooody war between them all because of COCAINE. Ha! I got you on that one. Now then comes Colombias great military leaders who were trained at the School of the Americas known for producing the worst of the worst military leaders who start aiding the paramilitary organizations because unfortunately the Military and government have always focused on getting rid of FARC without realy seeing that getting rid of the drug war between the Paramilitary grupps and FARC you get rid of both since this is their MONEY making business. Anyhoo all the US aid that came to colombia was given to the Military " BIG MISTAKE" they started helping paramilitary groups with weapons. See in cOlombia the military used to be very autonomous and did whatever it pleased behind the governments back, the government was blind to many of the attrocities they commited. And when things came to light Judges fearing for their lives would drop all charges against these Military leaders. In the case of UP massacres this is exactly what happened, paramilitary groups some organized by the military took on UP leaders after Barco took office, but thats old news every well informed Colombian knows these things. Barco seeing that thigs were getting out of hand made it ilegal for the military to aid any paramilitary groups. It used to be a 2 on 1 war now its a traingle war between paramilitary forces FARC and the military since the military is basically on a leash trying ot prove that it does not commit crimes against humanity. But FARC is no "angel" peasnt movement, they have never wanted to stop cultivating coca and keep kidnapping and using extortion killing inocent people they are as dirty as the paramilitary groups and the military. I was present at the forced takeover of Vetas Santander by FARC. Vetas was left in shambles in less than 5 hours, fortunately my room was in the basement of the house or I might of been caught in the line of fire. Their purpose for the takeover to rob the CAJA AGRARIA that at the time was the only bank in town, after 5 intense hours of fighting between 5 army men and close ot 115 Guerrilla fighters the death toll was close to 22 people, 18 civilians 4 Police and 4 of them kids. For 50 years fortunatelly the guerrilas hadnt had a presence in the town of roughly 4000 habitants located at 3300 meters above sea level , I guess its too cold and high for growing COCA and since there is no coca there are no paramilitary groups, but I'm pretty sure every person in town will remember what they did that night. COCAINE dives this war and the US is dumb thinking that spraying the fields is going to stop this problem. Sebas I'm dont want to bash Colombia or uribe but this is the reality of the situation, and Tertius FARC will never win the total support of the colombian people , you have to face the fact that their ideals are not even followed anymore and if they did follow them THEY JUST WOULDNT FLY , like COMMUNISM.

I guess i got a bit carried away
Sorry about the terrible english and spelling

Junior de Barranquilla CAMPEONES PARA SIMEPRE

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