CAR travelling

ColombiaBoard says on Dec 19, 2004, 07:53:

Your tour Well, you mention mostly places in the north of the country, but to go to Manizales you have to drive from Cartagena to Medellin and then continue to Manizales and the coffee region (Parque de los Nevados, Salento). That way you´ll cover only the northwestern part of the country, you can continue south until you reach Cali. That way you´d have covered most of the western side.
I don´t think you can rent a car in Colombia to do all that tour, and if you could then it would be very expensive, I suggest that you travel by bus (during daytime only).

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Gator says on Dec 19, 2004, 09:44:

Check out Avianca's Discover Colombia Airpass or the air pass offered by damn some help here on the other airline. If you are not familiar with the driving conditions and the aggressive Colombian drivers I would not rent a car. Check the bus-go every where-inexpensive-but time consuming

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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arturs says on Dec 19, 2004, 12:20:

thanks for comments Yes, you are right, we already thought to combine plane for more distant locations (Bogota- Santa Marta, Armenia - Bogota, Bogota - Leticia) and bus for closer destinations. This question about cars - just because I like to drive a lot. It is kind of freedom and free choice when to go and where. And usually it helped to discover countries more in details. However, I should agree that you are more in contact with local people (local language and culture) travelling by bus. But I never did it. So, hard to say.
I checked that Hertz is offering possibility to take car in one location and return to other. It is really not so cheap, but if splitted between group of 5 - reasonable. But there is another problem - loosing of charm of adventure. If you rent one new mid-size car with aircon etc. - it is too steril, clean and comfortable, there is no any personal touch.
What is situation in used cars market. Hard to find? Too expensive?
Let's say Ford Grand Marquise of 1978 - 1980. Little bit rusty, but big and running.

arturs

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adrimm says on Dec 19, 2004, 14:19:

Don't drive The drivers there really are aggresive and some are incrediby stupid. On my last 2 month visit we were onvolved in 2 accidents, one in Bogota where a buseta rammed the back of the cab we were riding in. The other was on the Chicamocha canyon road in Santander (2 lane canyon highway, no guard rail), a moron decided that passing us on a blind corner would be great, of course someone was coming so he swerved back into the lane, but was already too far ahead. He hit the back of our car and slammed us into the rockface. Everyone else was going so close behind that we had a 7 car pile-up. We all got mild whiplash and one of our party later had to visit the hospital to get a nasty hematoma on her arm checked.

Besides this, I really don't think that an unaccompanied, first-time visitor and foreigner should take to random exploration of the backcountry as you search for "greater detail". If you have a local with you, fine, they would know the area and prob won't let you go anywhere stupid. The charm of solo, private vehicle exploration of the country must be tempered in Colombia pending on what local circumstances are.

The bus network is good, use that and stick to the road-travelled.

Note that my comments are fairly general, it really varies, and my links are only with a small portion of the country. Yeah there are places that would be fine for driving, but why bother with the stress and expense when you can take a daybus?!

The buses have adventures too. We've had a bus breakdowns on each of our visits to Colombia, The city ones happen alot and everyone just sweeps onto another bus, and when in happened inter-city, all the pasengers ended up hitching with passing motorists to the next town.

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Gator says on Dec 19, 2004, 14:25:

Please! Listen to Your Tio Adrimm nt

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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adrimm says on Dec 19, 2004, 14:28:

??? Mi Tio? Que dice mi tio?

ohhh I get ya. Thanks gator - small correction: "your tia adrimm"

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mrxcol says on Dec 19, 2004, 15:45:

Most of the people in Colombia drive like most of people in NY. Most of americans doesn't like driving in NY because of that disorder and crazyness of the traffic in that city. It's funny. I love driving in NY because it reminds me my country. If you've driven in NY safely then you can drive here. Just remember:

- There will be lots of two lane roads. It's the most usual.
- The aren't enough guard rails on most of the corners on some mountains.
- Drive deffensively. Anytime, anybody will try to pass your car, many times in corners. It's better to leave them do it, it's up to them. Slow down and let them pass thru.
- Try not to travel at nigth. It's very dangerous here.
- Depending on the places you visit it would be a good idea to give a call to police prior to depart to some place in order to know how's going to be the safety, traffic, etc.
- You must keep your lights on (outside of the cities) all the day. Not doing it would cost a penalty of COP $ 380.000. (US$ 150).
- Rent a car. Don't buy an used car unless you're a mechanician and love to deal with it.


This may sound a bit dramatic but keep in mind: There are lesser guerrilla kidnapping on the roads by now. But be careful and mantain normal precautions. Learn to recognize our army: no beard, no moustache, military haircut and hiking boots. Guerrilla wears swamp boots.

After traveling some days you will include this precautions in your normal precautions here. And will enjoy your stay.

Julian

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adrimm says on Dec 19, 2004, 15:56:

mrxcol It's damn-well my business if the person trying to pass me blindly causes an accident bec I could well be killed.

My little Chicamocha accident story up there illustrates this nicely; had we been travelling in the other direction, myself and *all* my party would be resting in a cemetary somehere (or the bottom of the canyon)- becuase a moron decided to try to pass with oncoming traffic.

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mrxcol says on Dec 19, 2004, 16:07:

That's Colombia. I could end up killed in a disco messing with the wrong people, driving in the wrong lane, going to the wrong bar or being in the wrong moment, wrong place. Sorry for you story but if you'd been traveling in the opposite direction that could happen to even the best driver. And it does happen here.

If a persons wants to pass on you, let him pass. If it's a blind pass, let him pass FASTER.


Julian

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 19, 2004, 22:05:

The craziest thing about Colombian driving habits is that they work. If a guy was driving like that here, he wouldn't last a day. He'd be killed or he'd end up killing someone else. It's like a whole system of driving and it works because everybody's doing it and the expectations of what other drivers are going to do are different.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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mrxcol says on Dec 20, 2004, 07:28:

You're rigth. When somebody drives in other way, say for example driving like in USA, he will go slower than most of the cars, may cause a crash when not allowing a car to pass, will get lot's on insults and horns, may collide with a bus (the most horrible drivers) etc.


Also another advice: Busses and taxis should have precedence over you. They don't respect traffic laws at all and busses have a huge chassis to relay on.

And an additional advice: It's common to see black tinted windows in some cars here. Some are for ladies looking for safety, and some are for drug lords or small traquetos. If you ever find a luxury SUV with tinted windows (and possibly another car behind it) let them pass. I've neved had any problem with them but once my father crashed with another guy (it was this guy's mistake) but the police recommended him: leave now.

I don't want to scare you. It's the way of being here. Don't relay on police or traffic police. I've driven for over 10 years, had 6 crashes (4 were minor scratches) and drive fast all the time (that's the way i like). About 5 years ago i haven't had any problem on the roads (my girlfriend is the one who's having problems now. In the last 2 years has scratched my car 4 times !!!)

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arturs says on Dec 20, 2004, 22:59:

mrxcol thanks for advice. Its quite interesting to read all those posts, because feeling is like reading about my country (exept of mountain scenery). We have practically only two lane roads everywhere. All are driving fast, trying to think out in which bushes policemen could sit with radar etc... Thats only problem which cost something. Off course driving style in every country is a little bit different and you have to catch it. Going to center of Rome or Milano you also could have problems and crashes if not driving like they do (using brakes and horn simultaneously), but if you are able to "jump in streem" - ok. Driving culture is also part of country, part of locals life (which is really interesting).

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adrimm says on Dec 21, 2004, 10:56:

Doesn't work. Sorry.

Yes people are transported, and there are fewer accidents than you might expect, BUT there are still far more occurring.

My 2 accidents involved local drivers, and my family has had numerous deaths in traffic accidents. I can think of 3 within my immediate circle of aunts/uncle and first cousin - all leaving widows and children.

Ask any Colombian how many people in their extended families have been killed in traffic accidents, most should have a few tragedies to share.

But traffic safety is only one portion of safety in Colombia. As most of us know the countryside can hold other risks and dangers for unsuspecting and unguided visitors.

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Lionheart says on Dec 21, 2004, 11:13:

statistics? Yesterday I read about 2 tragic bus accidents in SA, one in Peru, one in Brazil. I read SA news daily and I notice that fatal bus accidents are quite common everywhere in SA.

I would be curious about the ratio of deaths involved in bus accidents versus busses being heldup with deaths/kidnappings. This would help to scale the relative dangers on crossing the country by bus.

It is sort of like discussing how dangerous flying in a plane is.... when it crashes a lot of people die, but when just driving or walking around in a city, your chances to get killed are much higher.

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spigrimace says on Jan 10, 2005, 14:51:

Comparing drivers in NY to drivers in Colombia I'm from NYC and have been to Colombia 6 times and have a few businesses in Medellin. There's no comparison. Colombian drivers are 1000x's as crazy. I have a company car there and I will not drive in the PM rush hour. And I am scared sh*tless to drive at night there due to the lack of respect for red lights. Akin to driving however, you cannot beat the fanaticism of the classicos between Nacional & Medellin. These games are a ton better than Yankees/Mets matchups.

For the topic at hand, don't drive unless you are travelling with Colombian friends in whom you have lots of trust.

If anyone needs safe secure car service in Medellin, I have 3 reliable conductors who have safe, reliable, newer cars with air conditioning. Just email me at spigrimace at yahoo.com

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poco says on Mar 7, 2005, 09:10:

JUST SAY NO A rule:
Never drive in Colombia (or most other locations in the world).
The buses between cities are plentiful and nice.
Injury or death as a passanger far exceeds all others combined.
There is a reason why public drivers wear seat belts. A good driver is hard to find.

Passing a Truck

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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arturs says on Apr 21, 2005, 23:55:

say- YES I tried two month ago. IT IS SAFE. Just RESPECT all other drivers on the road.

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arturo says on Apr 22, 2005, 03:50:

can you describe what you did ?
thanks

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arturs says on Apr 22, 2005, 23:59:

car driving in Colombia Just from my subjective experience:
- cars for Colombians give possibility to move from point A to point B;
- they prefer to make this movement as fast as possible;
- they have really good roads and a lot of traffic signs, but it is not important for them, because they are able to drive faster and use their own rules;
- if in Italy beeper is somehow connected to breaks, in Colombia beeper is connected with accelerator, and , off course, you can use it instead of turning lights; (it is understandable because other driver could miss light indication but not this sound indication)
- Colombians are not aggressive drivers, they are carefull and fast drivers, they see and respect all other cars on the road, they are ready to brake and to push on accelerator in seconds;
- as main idea is to arrive at point B in shortest time, they are not interested in crashes, because crash stops driving;
- so Colombians are able to use cars until they become taxi. Taxi Colombians are able to drive until taxi drives.

So, if you understand these rules, and you are able to be as part in this traffic flow, respecting all other drivers and their speed, keeping them informed about your next turn, ready to push on brakes – it will be pleasure for you to drive in Colombia.

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